Central Communication Port
Central Communication Port - good or bad idea? What are your opinions on this matter, is it a waste of money or does this investment make sense?
Central Communication Port - good or bad idea? What are your opinions on this matter, is it a waste of money or does this investment make sense?
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12 answers
Moim zdaniem jest to dobry pomysł. Lotnisko które będzie dostępne dla ludzi z całej Polski. Przepustowość tego lotniska ma być 2x to co jest na Okęciu. Polska się rozwija i ma to sens żebyśmy mieli takie duże lotnisko. Lotnisko to też ma pomóc w rozwoju gospodarki i stworzy miejsca pracy.
Nie rozumiem czemu w Polsce wszystko trzeba krytykować. Inne kraje mają wielkie i nowoczesne lotniska a w Polsce jak tylko ktoś coś próbuje zrobić spotyka się to z natychmiastową krytyką.
Moim zdaniem jest to dobry pomysł. Lotnisko które będzie dostępne dla ludzi z całej Polski. Przepustowość tego lotniska ma być 2x to co jest na Okęciu. Polska się rozwija i ma to sens żebyśmy mieli takie duże lotnisko. Lotnisko to też ma pomóc w rozwoju gospodarki i stworzy miejsca pracy.
Nie rozumiem czemu w Polsce wszystko trzeba krytykować. Inne kraje mają wielkie i nowoczesne lotniska a w Polsce jak tylko ktoś coś próbuje zrobić spotyka się to z natychmiastową krytyką.
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Machine translated
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Machine translated
I believe that the concept of a Central Communication Port has both its advantages and disadvantages. On one hand, having a centralized communication port can greatly streamline communication processes within an organization. It can serve as a single point of contact for all communication needs, making it easier for employees to access and utilize various communication tools such as email, instant messaging, and video conferencing. This can result in increased efficiency and productivity as employees can quickly and easily connect with one another. Furthermore, a centralized communication port can also enhance collaboration and knowledge sharing among employees. It can provide a central repository for important documents, resources, and information, making it easier for employees to access and share relevant information with their colleagues. This can lead to better decision-making and problem-solving within the organization. However, there are also potential drawbacks to consider. Implementing and maintaining a centralized communication port can be a costly undertaking. It requires significant investment in terms of infrastructure, technology, and ongoing maintenance. Additionally, there may be challenges in ensuring compatibility and integration with existing communication systems and platforms used by different departments or teams within the organization. Overall, whether a Central Communication Port is a good or bad idea depends on the specific needs and circumstances of an organization. For larger organizations with complex communication requirements, it could be a worthwhile investment that can greatly improve communication and collaboration. However, for smaller organizations or those with limited resources, the cost and effort involved may outweigh the potential benefits.
I believe that the concept of a Central Communication Port has both its advantages and disadvantages. On one hand, having a centralized communication port can greatly streamline communication processes within an organization. It can serve as a single point of contact for all communication needs, making it easier for employees to access and utilize various communication tools such as email, instant messaging, and video conferencing. This can result in increased efficiency and productivity as employees can quickly and easily connect with one another. Furthermore, a centralized communication port can also enhance collaboration and knowledge sharing among employees. It can provide a central repository for important documents, resources, and information, making it easier for employees to access and share relevant information with their colleagues. This can lead to better decision-making and problem-solving within the organization. However, there are also potential drawbacks to consider. Implementing and maintaining a centralized communication port can be a costly undertaking. It requires significant investment in terms of infrastructure, technology, and ongoing maintenance. Additionally, there may be challenges in ensuring compatibility and integration with existing communication systems and platforms used by different departments or teams within the organization. Overall, whether a Central Communication Port is a good or bad idea depends on the specific needs and circumstances of an organization. For larger organizations with complex communication requirements, it could be a worthwhile investment that can greatly improve communication and collaboration. However, for smaller organizations or those with limited resources, the cost and effort involved may outweigh the potential benefits.
Is the Central Communication Port (CPK) a good idea - I think so. Just like many other ideas or concepts, but that is irrelevant here.
A more important question is whether CPK as an investment (business project) will bring benefits (is profitable), to whom and what kind of benefits can they be?
We should discuss it.
To answer the above question, we need to identify the goals that this investment should serve?
1. Aviation component:
a. passenger air traffic services, which are extremely important in three stages of infrastructure development in accordance with growing operational needs,
b. air cargo services for the strategic needs of the state and private entities,
c. meeting the defense needs of the state (military segment).
2. Railway and road component:
a. construction of a connected network of express roads and local roads, corresponding to the airport,
b. construction of a connected railway network corresponding to the airport.
3. Military component:
a. base for aviation units,
b. airport providing logistic support within internal and external structures (NATO)
Further development in subsequent thematic sections.
"Is the Central Communication Port (CPK) a good idea - I think so. Just like many other ideas or concepts, but that is irrelevant here.
A more important question is whether CPK as an investment (business project) will bring benefits (is profitable), to whom and what kind of benefits can they be?
We should discuss it.
To answer the above question, we need to identify the goals that this investment should serve?
1. Aviation component:
a. passenger air traffic services, which are extremely important in three stages of infrastructure development in accordance with growing operational needs,
b. air cargo services for the strategic needs of the state and private entities,
c. meeting the defense needs of the state (military segment).
2. Railway and road component:
a. construction of a connected network of express roads and local roads, corresponding to the airport,
b. construction of a connected railway network corresponding to the airport.
3. Military component:
a. base for aviation units,
b. airport providing logistic support within internal and external structures (NATO)
Further development in subsequent thematic sections.
"Machine translated
AIR PASSENGER TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT - NEEDS AND BENEFITS
To begin with, what do we have:
Located in the southern part of the Warsaw agglomeration, at the junction of the S8 and S79 roads, is the Okęcie airport, built according to the construction principles prevailing in communist Poland. As a consequence, the terminal areas of this airport are oversized, which allows this part of the airport infrastructure to continue operating.
According to international nomenclature, it is an airport classified in the category of up to 25 million passengers within the maximum operational capacity. Okęcie is not a hub airport or transfer airport (like Frankfurt Airport, for example).
Although, according to "distinguished" Polish "parliamentary industry" experts, it somehow can accommodate 30 million passengers, despite the fact that the construction data indicates that the maximum capacity of this airport does not exceed 22 million passengers.
It is worth knowing that Warsaw Chopin Airport operates under a restricted system. Operational time (possible slots) is limited to 75% of the operational capacity. The airport cannot conduct flight operations between approximately 23:00 and 05:00.
The residential buildings located in the northern zone and the road junctions in the southern part of the runways effectively prevent further development of this airport.
In 2019, the statistics included 18.7 million passengers, this year this number will be surpassed and unfortunately we will have a new record, even though IATA's forecasts suggested the recovery of air traffic after the pandemic only in 2025. A new record will be achieved despite the fact that Okęcie some time ago abandoned the service of the largest Emirates aircraft, as handling the arrival of this aircraft requires the reservation of nearly 2/3 of the check-in positions for this airline, effectively creating bottlenecks at the airport in the past.
It is worth noting the trend among the youngest or newly opened airports, namely that they are being built outside densely populated areas wherever there is a physical possibility, in order to avoid the imposition of restrictions on the performance of flight operations during certain hours.
What do we want to achieve:
The CPK airport is intended to serve as a hub airport not only for Poland but also for CEE countries.
The project will be implemented in stages:
a. Stage 1 will accommodate max. 40 million passengers (2028-2035) on approximately 2150 hectares of land with 2 runways,
b. Stage 2 will accommodate max. 50 million passengers (2035-2044) on approximately 2700 hectares of land with 2 runways,
c. Stage 3 will accommodate max. 65 million passengers (2045-2060) on approximately 3900 hectares of land with 3 runways.
source: Airport Master Plan (https://www.cpk.pl/en/for-residents/airport-program/master-plan)
Therefore, we are talking about a target of 65 million passengers, not over 100 million as journalists previously widely spread based on preliminary concepts.
Does this phased approach make sense from a business perspective? To answer this question, it is worth examining the strategic advisory partner of the CPK project for the airport component, namely Incheon Airport.
Incheon Airport ranked third among the best airports (not necessarily the largest) in 2019 (World's Best Airport by Skytrax). In the latest ranking (for 2023), it ranked 4th.
It was also developed in three stages: the first stage accommodating approximately 30 million passengers, the next stage catering to approximately 50 million passengers, and the current stage serving over 71 million passengers annually.
As can be seen from a business point of view, the phased approach is a profitable solution, which is also confirmed by entities from the airport and investment industry that have expressed their interest in participating in the construction costs of CPK in exchange for minority shares.
If CPK is completed in 2028, it could already serve approximately 22 million passengers annually right from the local market, as much or even more than Okęcie will handle in 3-4 years, assuming that Okęcie will expand its passenger infrastructure (terminals) in the meantime.
Benefits:
a. Material (during the construction and operation of airport and related infrastructure)
b. Competence (in terms of economic entities: implementing the investment and taking care of its ongoing service (maintenance), as well as managing the functioning of the airport complex, including passenger service and air traffic control)
c. Development, innovation (access to new technologies in the field of airport construction and management, participation of Polish entities in these processes)
d. Strategic (prestige on the international stage and a different perception of the Polish economy) - positive impact on GDP in the long term
e. Social (in terms of the method of acquiring land for this purpose - Voluntary Acquisition Program)
The positive and previously unseen aspects of land expropriation for public purposes included in the Voluntary Acquisition Program are the subject for a separate entry.
AIR PASSENGER TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT - NEEDS AND BENEFITS
To begin with, what do we have:
Located in the southern part of the Warsaw agglomeration, at the junction of the S8 and S79 roads, is the Okęcie airport, built according to the construction principles prevailing in communist Poland. As a consequence, the terminal areas of this airport are oversized, which allows this part of the airport infrastructure to continue operating.
According to international nomenclature, it is an airport classified in the category of up to 25 million passengers within the maximum operational capacity. Okęcie is not a hub airport or transfer airport (like Frankfurt Airport, for example).
Although, according to "distinguished" Polish "parliamentary industry" experts, it somehow can accommodate 30 million passengers, despite the fact that the construction data indicates that the maximum capacity of this airport does not exceed 22 million passengers.
It is worth knowing that Warsaw Chopin Airport operates under a restricted system. Operational time (possible slots) is limited to 75% of the operational capacity. The airport cannot conduct flight operations between approximately 23:00 and 05:00.
The residential buildings located in the northern zone and the road junctions in the southern part of the runways effectively prevent further development of this airport.
In 2019, the statistics included 18.7 million passengers, this year this number will be surpassed and unfortunately we will have a new record, even though IATA's forecasts suggested the recovery of air traffic after the pandemic only in 2025. A new record will be achieved despite the fact that Okęcie some time ago abandoned the service of the largest Emirates aircraft, as handling the arrival of this aircraft requires the reservation of nearly 2/3 of the check-in positions for this airline, effectively creating bottlenecks at the airport in the past.
It is worth noting the trend among the youngest or newly opened airports, namely that they are being built outside densely populated areas wherever there is a physical possibility, in order to avoid the imposition of restrictions on the performance of flight operations during certain hours.
What do we want to achieve:
The CPK airport is intended to serve as a hub airport not only for Poland but also for CEE countries.
The project will be implemented in stages:
a. Stage 1 will accommodate max. 40 million passengers (2028-2035) on approximately 2150 hectares of land with 2 runways,
b. Stage 2 will accommodate max. 50 million passengers (2035-2044) on approximately 2700 hectares of land with 2 runways,
c. Stage 3 will accommodate max. 65 million passengers (2045-2060) on approximately 3900 hectares of land with 3 runways.
source: Airport Master Plan (https://www.cpk.pl/en/for-residents/airport-program/master-plan)
Therefore, we are talking about a target of 65 million passengers, not over 100 million as journalists previously widely spread based on preliminary concepts.
Does this phased approach make sense from a business perspective? To answer this question, it is worth examining the strategic advisory partner of the CPK project for the airport component, namely Incheon Airport.
Incheon Airport ranked third among the best airports (not necessarily the largest) in 2019 (World's Best Airport by Skytrax). In the latest ranking (for 2023), it ranked 4th.
It was also developed in three stages: the first stage accommodating approximately 30 million passengers, the next stage catering to approximately 50 million passengers, and the current stage serving over 71 million passengers annually.
As can be seen from a business point of view, the phased approach is a profitable solution, which is also confirmed by entities from the airport and investment industry that have expressed their interest in participating in the construction costs of CPK in exchange for minority shares.
If CPK is completed in 2028, it could already serve approximately 22 million passengers annually right from the local market, as much or even more than Okęcie will handle in 3-4 years, assuming that Okęcie will expand its passenger infrastructure (terminals) in the meantime.
Benefits:
a. Material (during the construction and operation of airport and related infrastructure)
b. Competence (in terms of economic entities: implementing the investment and taking care of its ongoing service (maintenance), as well as managing the functioning of the airport complex, including passenger service and air traffic control)
c. Development, innovation (access to new technologies in the field of airport construction and management, participation of Polish entities in these processes)
d. Strategic (prestige on the international stage and a different perception of the Polish economy) - positive impact on GDP in the long term
e. Social (in terms of the method of acquiring land for this purpose - Voluntary Acquisition Program)
The positive and previously unseen aspects of land expropriation for public purposes included in the Voluntary Acquisition Program are the subject for a separate entry.
Machine translated
AIR FREIGHT HANDLING - NEEDS AND BENEFITS
Unfortunately, few people know that currently 60-80% of external air freight serving Poland is handled by foreign airports (Germany and the Netherlands).
This means that the vast majority of Poland's strategic air freight needs are being met by foreign entities. This situation is unacceptable due to national security concerns.
But more importantly, it is even more unacceptable from an economic standpoint for two reasons:
a. the lack of possibility for Polish airports (and related aviation companies) to benefit from fees related to aviation and logistics services for such deliveries,
b. the lack of possibility for the Polish state to benefit from introducing products and goods into the European Customs Area - enormous losses on customs duties.
At this point, it is worth noting why media does not speak in complete sentences about the profitability of all mega investments currently taking place in Poland.
Examples of such statements (half-sentences):
CPK is not profitable in terms of the airport component
and now the second missing part of the sentence:
- for Germany, France, and the Netherlands as direct competition in terms of transit traffic handling,
- for Germany and the Netherlands as direct competition in terms of handling Polish air freight and the ability to derive income from customs fees for this market segment, for which these countries had a monopoly,
- for Germany (Ramstein Air Base (RMS)) as direct competition in terms of the ability to generate income from the handling of military equipment relocation logistics in the context of NATO activities.
Similar omissions occur, for example, with the container terminal in Świnoujście.
It is worth knowing the statistics, which indicate that Polish seaports have been consistently recording double-digit year-on-year growth in volumes for about 4-5 years, while the internal port in Hamburg saw a volume decline of approximately 6.5% in the previous year.
This raises the question: who took over these cargoes and why are Germans bothered by the sight of container ships entering the external (located right by the sea) terminal being built in Świnoujście (which they actually cannot see from their homes), and they are not bothered by the current sight of hundreds of container ships entering directly in front of their windows from the open sea to the internal Hamburg port along the Elbe River over a distance of about 50-60 km, where products and goods are then unloaded and customs revenue goes to the German treasury.
It should be remembered that developed Western European countries do not care much about us and our policies unless we start to threaten their economic and business interests.
Economic and market aspects are a priority for developed countries, not political and social brawls, as is too often the case in the political circles of young economies like Poland.
AIR FREIGHT HANDLING - NEEDS AND BENEFITS
Unfortunately, few people know that currently 60-80% of external air freight serving Poland is handled by foreign airports (Germany and the Netherlands).
This means that the vast majority of Poland's strategic air freight needs are being met by foreign entities. This situation is unacceptable due to national security concerns.
But more importantly, it is even more unacceptable from an economic standpoint for two reasons:
a. the lack of possibility for Polish airports (and related aviation companies) to benefit from fees related to aviation and logistics services for such deliveries,
b. the lack of possibility for the Polish state to benefit from introducing products and goods into the European Customs Area - enormous losses on customs duties.
At this point, it is worth noting why media does not speak in complete sentences about the profitability of all mega investments currently taking place in Poland.
Examples of such statements (half-sentences):
CPK is not profitable in terms of the airport component
and now the second missing part of the sentence:
- for Germany, France, and the Netherlands as direct competition in terms of transit traffic handling,
- for Germany and the Netherlands as direct competition in terms of handling Polish air freight and the ability to derive income from customs fees for this market segment, for which these countries had a monopoly,
- for Germany (Ramstein Air Base (RMS)) as direct competition in terms of the ability to generate income from the handling of military equipment relocation logistics in the context of NATO activities.
Similar omissions occur, for example, with the container terminal in Świnoujście.
It is worth knowing the statistics, which indicate that Polish seaports have been consistently recording double-digit year-on-year growth in volumes for about 4-5 years, while the internal port in Hamburg saw a volume decline of approximately 6.5% in the previous year.
This raises the question: who took over these cargoes and why are Germans bothered by the sight of container ships entering the external (located right by the sea) terminal being built in Świnoujście (which they actually cannot see from their homes), and they are not bothered by the current sight of hundreds of container ships entering directly in front of their windows from the open sea to the internal Hamburg port along the Elbe River over a distance of about 50-60 km, where products and goods are then unloaded and customs revenue goes to the German treasury.
It should be remembered that developed Western European countries do not care much about us and our policies unless we start to threaten their economic and business interests.
Economic and market aspects are a priority for developed countries, not political and social brawls, as is too often the case in the political circles of young economies like Poland.
Machine translated
MEETING THE NEEDS IN THE FIELD OF NATIONAL DEFENSE - NEEDS AND BENEFITS
Needs:
a. base of aviation units, providing the opportunity for continuous (uninterrupted by civilian traffic) conducting military aviation operations at the strategic, operational, and tactical levels - a separate runway and taxiways anticipated,
b. airport providing logistical support within the internal structures of the Polish military,
c. handling logistics of military equipment relocation within NATO operations.
Benefits:
a. increased internal security of the country in terms of military aviation operations,
b. increased interoperability within NATO structures.
MEETING THE NEEDS IN THE FIELD OF NATIONAL DEFENSE - NEEDS AND BENEFITS
Needs:
a. base of aviation units, providing the opportunity for continuous (uninterrupted by civilian traffic) conducting military aviation operations at the strategic, operational, and tactical levels - a separate runway and taxiways anticipated,
b. airport providing logistical support within the internal structures of the Polish military,
c. handling logistics of military equipment relocation within NATO operations.
Benefits:
a. increased internal security of the country in terms of military aviation operations,
b. increased interoperability within NATO structures.
Machine translated
Spending money unnecessarily in my opinion. Warsaw is already nearby, and it already has two airports - Chopin Airport and Modlin. Soon, a third airport will be opened in Radom. That's already 3 airports within a 100km radius. People don't want to fly that much anymore. The model of the transportation system is changing. If someone wants to fly to Gdansk, they look for a direct connection to Gdansk. To Warsaw? To Chopin Airport or Modlin, which are close by. Not to CPK, which will be far from the capital.
Spending money unnecessarily in my opinion. Warsaw is already nearby, and it already has two airports - Chopin Airport and Modlin. Soon, a third airport will be opened in Radom. That's already 3 airports within a 100km radius. People don't want to fly that much anymore. The model of the transportation system is changing. If someone wants to fly to Gdansk, they look for a direct connection to Gdansk. To Warsaw? To Chopin Airport or Modlin, which are close by. Not to CPK, which will be far from the capital.
Machine translated
Machine translated
No.
The first stage of construction was supposed to be completed in 2028.
However, plans are just plans. Most likely it would be built after 2030.
And that is quite an optimistic scenario considering other buildings that officials have been dealing with.
Until Poland defines its long-term foreign policy, it could be a dead end.
I have repeatedly asked the question in various places - where will the goods to be transported come from? And no one answered because no one knows :)
We had a falling out with the Chinese. Transportation by land goes more smoothly with Germany. The USA is too far and too expensive.
The Central Communication Port would only make sense as part of the Chinese plan for the new Silk Road. But the Silk Road was blocked under pressure from the USA.
The issue of missing capacity? If it is to be supplemented by some other airport, Radom or Modlin can be expanded.
It is better to have several airports where the goods will reach the customer closer and there will be no need to adapt the entire road infrastructure.
And another problem is that the EU is starting a fight against air transport due to CO2 emissions. Knowing the efficiency of Polish governments, it will turn out that transportation to Poland will be penalized because the EU favors German transport.
It is even better to add some smaller airport in a good location as a complement to the existing ones, rather than build a new mega airport and condemn some of the current airports to bankruptcy.
Even if by some miracle we manage to build the Central Communication Port in a few decades, Germany will manage to push through customs duties or regulations that will leave us penniless and billions of euros in debt.
But if someone is going to work there and earn tens of thousands of dollars a month, the Central Communication Port is a great idea for them to make a living and milk the naive.
BTW. The outgoing government had such a brilliant vision for the future of Poland that they ordered 200 million doses of vaccine for 20 million people in need.
I'm afraid that this government made air traffic forecasts in a similar way.
Meanwhile, when new taxes are introduced under the Fit for 55 program, few people will be flying by planes.
No.
The first stage of construction was supposed to be completed in 2028.
However, plans are just plans. Most likely it would be built after 2030.
And that is quite an optimistic scenario considering other buildings that officials have been dealing with.
Until Poland defines its long-term foreign policy, it could be a dead end.
I have repeatedly asked the question in various places - where will the goods to be transported come from? And no one answered because no one knows :)
We had a falling out with the Chinese. Transportation by land goes more smoothly with Germany. The USA is too far and too expensive.
The Central Communication Port would only make sense as part of the Chinese plan for the new Silk Road. But the Silk Road was blocked under pressure from the USA.
The issue of missing capacity? If it is to be supplemented by some other airport, Radom or Modlin can be expanded.
It is better to have several airports where the goods will reach the customer closer and there will be no need to adapt the entire road infrastructure.
And another problem is that the EU is starting a fight against air transport due to CO2 emissions. Knowing the efficiency of Polish governments, it will turn out that transportation to Poland will be penalized because the EU favors German transport.
It is even better to add some smaller airport in a good location as a complement to the existing ones, rather than build a new mega airport and condemn some of the current airports to bankruptcy.
Even if by some miracle we manage to build the Central Communication Port in a few decades, Germany will manage to push through customs duties or regulations that will leave us penniless and billions of euros in debt.
But if someone is going to work there and earn tens of thousands of dollars a month, the Central Communication Port is a great idea for them to make a living and milk the naive.
BTW. The outgoing government had such a brilliant vision for the future of Poland that they ordered 200 million doses of vaccine for 20 million people in need.
I'm afraid that this government made air traffic forecasts in a similar way.
Meanwhile, when new taxes are introduced under the Fit for 55 program, few people will be flying by planes.
Machine translated